On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

• Maryland Gov. Wes Moore
• Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, Democrat of New Hampshire
• Rep. Mike Lawler, Republican of New York 
• Allianz chief economic adviser Mohamed El-Erian
• UNICEF executive director Catherine Russell 

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."   

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MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: The Trump administration builds up the federal presence in the nation's capital to crack down on crime, and the president vows to use similar tactics in other U.S. cities. The number of National Guard troops sent to protect Washington continues to grow, as President Trump praises his own plan to clean up the city.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): D.C. was a hellhole, and now it's safe. The numbers were horrible. It was a crime-infested rathole. And they do have a lot of rats. We're getting rid of them too.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: But as Mr. Trump dismissed district leaders' claim of a 30-year low in violent crime, he's vowing a similar surge in Chicago, New York, and other cities. What could that mean for public safety in your community?

We will check in with Maryland Democratic Governor Wes Moore and New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler.

Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell hints at an interest rate cut, and the stock market soars. But he also cautions that the U.S. economy is facing challenging times.

(Begin VT)

JEROME POWELL (Federal Reserve Chairman): There is significant uncertainty about where all of these policies will eventually settle and what their lasting effects on the economy will be.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will get a reality check on Powell's speech on the state of the economy from economist Mohamed El-Erian.

Plus: A U.N.-backed group confirms residents of Gaza City are facing catastrophic conditions of famine and warn that it will soon expand to other areas within the Gaza Strip. New Hampshire Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen is visiting the region and will join us. We will also talk with UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell.

It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

It's quiet here in Washington as we come on the air this morning, but the debate is heating up over President Trump's calling up of nearly 2,300 National Guardsmen, along with federal agents from ICE, the ATF, the Drug Enforcement Agency, the FBI and others, to patrol the streets of the city alongside D.C. police forces.

And we're seeing yet another instance of Trump's expanding of the federal government's reach, this time when it comes to control of police in local communities. Will we see pictures like these in other U.S. cities in the future?

Well, one of the places President Trump has mentioned as needing help fighting crime is nearby Baltimore.

And joining us right now is Maryland's Democratic governor, Wes Moore.

Thank you for being here.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE (D-Maryland): Thank you so much for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, there – here in D.C., there are Guardsmen from six different states on the street.

The mission is – quote – "beautification duty and support." The defense secretary has author – authorized them to carry M4 and M17 rifles, but, to date, we have not been able to locate anyone armed within the National Guard on the streets of D.C.

Why, though, are you so opposed to this deployment?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Well, there's – there's plenty of reasons.

You know, one, it is not sustainable. You cannot continue this type of pace of operations, particularly when you're – when it's costing over a million dollars a day in order to do this. The second, it's not scalable. You're not going to be able to do this in every single major American city, particularly when many of the cities that have the highest crime rates are the places that have actually deployed their National Guards to Washington, D.C.

So who's going to – who's going to go do the work in their cities? The third, it's unconstitutional. It's a direct violation of the 10th Amendment. And for a party that talks about state rights, it's amazing how they're having such a big-government approach in the way they're conducting public safety.

The fourth reason is because it's deeply disrespectful to the members of the National Guard. As someone who actually deployed overseas and served my country in combat, to ask these men and women to do a job that they're not trained for is just deeply disrespectful.

And so when we're thinking about all of these lasting factors, when we're thinking about the fact that it serves as a distraction from the fact that the president's disastrous economic policies are making everything more expensive for everyday Americans, is making life harder for everyday Americans, there is a multitude of reasons that I am against this.

And I will not authorize the Maryland National Guard to be utilized for this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the National Guard does say that these troops will be trained and deputized by federal Marshals. So this is going to be distinct from the military rules of engagement.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: But it is counter to every bit of training that we received.

When – when I joined the military, we joined with a clear intention to fight and win our nation's wars. The members of our National Guard are trained up to be able to address things like emergency situations, situations where you need – where you need a surge of supports for – for traumas and disasters…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: … that are happening within individual jurisdictions. That is not this. And this is a direct deflection that the president is authorizing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We know the president watches the program, and he likely saw the guest listing, because he's tweeting about you – or TRUTHing, I guess.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He says: "The Governor Wes Moore of Maryland has asked in a nasty and provocative tone that I walk the streets of Maryland with him." And he's talking about "crime-ridden Baltimore." It's quite lengthy, but he goes after your record on crime.

He says it's a bad one. He says, if you need help, he will send in the troops, which is being done in nearby D.C. I mean, when we saw a few weeks ago the deployment on the streets of Los Angeles, the governor of California tried to go to the courts, and he was unable to stop it.

Is the reality here is you can't stop the president from sending troops to Baltimore if he wants to?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: The year before I became the governor, in 2022, Baltimore was averaging almost a homicide a day. And I came in and I said, I refuse to be a governor who just offers thoughts and prayers to this situation.

So we said we're actually going to work in partnership with Mayor Scott, work in partnership with local elected officials, work in partnership with local – with local law enforcement. We made the largest investments in local law enforcement in our state's history, over $50 million going to Baltimore City alone.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That came from federal money.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: That – well, no, that came from both federal and state money. And, also, Maryland became one of the only states that actually helps to fund the U.S. attorney out of balance sheet, taking many of those gun crimes and actually turning them into federal charges.

And the results have been – have been incredibly encouraging, where Maryland's had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime of anywhere in the United States in the past 2.5 years.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: The homicide rate in Maryland is down over 20 percent since I have been the governor. And the last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore City, I was not born yet.

And so the reason that I have asked the president to come and join us is because he seems to enjoy living in this blissful ignorance, this – these tropes, in these 1980s scare tac – scare tactics.

And, you know, just last week I was in Baltimore, and I was with a group called We Our Us, who is a violence intervention group. And they say, we're all we got, we're all we need. And that's exactly how people in this community feel, because, while the president is spending his time from the Oval Office making jabs and attacks at us, there are people actually on the ground doing the work who know what supports would actually work to continue to bring down crime,.

But it's falling on deaf ears of the president of the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're talking about the positive trend line. The president's pointing to the FBI statistics, which shows Baltimore has the fifth most instances of violent crime on a per capita basis, fourth highest murder rate.

To your point, the city of Memphis is also on that list, and the governor of Tennessee sent those National Guard troops here to this city, not to the streets of Memphis. But…

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Correct.

And we know we have work to do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: We know – like, if one person does not feel safe in their neighborhood, that's one too many. But we also know what tactics actually work and what tactics is just theatrics.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But your – the mayor in Baltimore did just say he wants federal help. He doesn't want National Guard troops, per se, though. He says he wants agents from FBI, DEA and ATF.

Do you need more federal help in policing, if your mayor thinks you do?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Oh, absolutely. And we need the president to stop cutting funding, because, if you look at the president's budget, it actually cuts funding towards violence intervention groups. It cuts funding towards the bureaus of the FBI and the ATF that are supporting local jurisdictions like Baltimore, that it doesn't do anything about things like ghost guns and these extended Glock clips that allow these Glocks to essentially turn into automatic weapons.

Those are actually real, tangible things…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: … that the president of the United States could do and where you could put capital to actually make our communities safer.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So you are a Democrat who is – President Trump says so as well – possibly a presidential candidate. He talked about you the other day.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He's spending a lot of time talking about you.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: I have been on his mind a lot.

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're spending time talking about crime. Is this something that, as a Democrat, you think the Democratic Party needs to be more vocal and muscular about when running for office? Because I hear you doing that. It's a very big change from 2020, when the, you know, idea was defund the police.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Absolutely.

And, yes, the president spending all of his time talking about me. I'm spending my time talking about the people I serve. And, yes, I believe that we have to be able to address the issue of crime. I came up in and I have existed in neighborhoods and communities that have been chronically neglected.

And I remember one of the first things that happened in our first months in, I had to visit Shock Trauma inside of Baltimore because Baltimore had one of the largest mass shootings in its history. And I visited a young man, a teenager, who was just finished surgery and had one of his testicles shot off, and was talking about, how was he ever going to become a father?

And I said, at that point, I refuse to continue doing this and not putting the proper resources in place, and not being able to put a real focus on making our communities safer. And that's why it is so frustrating when we're hearing from the president of the United States something that is just purely performative, without actually focusing on these communities and these neighborhoods, who believe that progress is possible and who are willing to put in the work.

And we're just simply asking for Washington to be able to acknowledge it and support it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He says you're not presidential timber at all.

I imagine you disagree with that assessment?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: No, I have been very clear. I'm not running for president.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right now.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: But it's interesting that – but it's interesting. The president seems to be more concerned about my future than he is about the future of the American people.

And that's why I'm asking him to keep his focus. Focus on the things that actually matter right now, which is the fact that his economic policies are driving up prices on everything from electronics, to the clothes that we wear, to the food that we eat. Talk about the fact that he has immigration policies that are knocking out tens of thousands of jobs in the state of Maryland.

Talk about the fact that you are about to kick veterans and seniors off of health care. Don't worry about my future. Worry about theirs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you. You brought up immigration.

One of the residents of your state, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, was just released from pretrial detention on Friday. But the Trump administration has instructed him to report to ICE within 72 hours for deportation to Uganda. He's originally from El Salvador. He was mistakenly deported to that prison in El Salvador and then returned to the U.S.

This is federal policy. This is not state policy. But I do wonder, is there anything that you are doing to help his family stay united?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes, and the – what we know is that, you know, and all we're asking for is that the Constitution be followed on this.

The Constitution is very clear about how we deal with these types of issues. And when we look at what's happened in this situation, it's the president manipulating the fact that we have a very broken immigration system inside this country. But instead of actually doing the work that it requires to fix it, actually working in Congress to come up with a comprehensive immigration bill, the president is using to just – working to exploit the brokenness.

And I am very clear that there is no higher priority for me than public safety, that…

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: You want him to face a day in court, in other words, rather than…

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Absolutely. I want due process.

I just simply want a court and a judge to decide, what is going to be the future fate of this case and all cases like this, and not simply the president of the United States or the secretary of homeland security, who is – who is trying to be judge, juror, prosecutor, and executioner inside this case.

I believe in the Constitution, and I believe that that's what we should follow for this case.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about something your party is tinkering with here, redistricting, or gerrymandering, as some people know it.

You've said you don't like talking about it, but all options are on the table when it comes to your state. There's only one – one seat here that is actually Republican, and it's a seat held by Representative Andy Harris. Are you considering trying to redraw lines in Maryland?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes, I mean, when I say all options are on the table, all options are on the table.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you actively looking at it now?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes, because. And I think – and I think we have to.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You are?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes, and I think – and I think we have to, because I think what's happened is, this is what people hate about politics in the first place, the fact that the president of the United States, very similar to what he did in Georgia, where he called up a series of voter registrants and said, I need you to find me more votes, we're watching the same thing now, where he's calling up legislatures around the country and saying, I need you to find me more congressional districts.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He's doing it. That may be different.

But Democrats redistrict. You know this.,

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But Gavin Newsom is doing it right now. A few years ago in New York, we saw this. This can backfire. Do you really want to go down this road?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: I want to make sure that we have fair lines and fair seats, where we don't have situations where – where politicians are choosing voters, but that voters actually have a chance to choose their elected officials. We need to be able to have fair maps.

And we also need to make sure that if the president of the United States is putting his finger on the scale to try to manipulate elections because he knows that his policies cannot win in a ballot box, then it behooves each and every one of us to be able to keep all options on the table to ensure that the voters' voices can actually be heard, and we can have maps…

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you don't think that one district where they represent – they have a Republican representative, that they are actively being represented in Maryland?

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: I think, if you look at maps across the country, less than 10 percent of congressional seats are actually competitive by nature, less than 10 percent.

And so if you look at the average win margin in our state and so many states, the average win margin is upwards of 20 to 30 percent.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: So that means we already have so many gerrymandered areas that we have to be able to add a measure of fairness in the way that it's applied. And so, yes, all options need to be on the table in the state of Maryland.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you're looking at it, you said.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Yes, we are.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor, thank you for your time this morning.

GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Thank you so much.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're back now with the top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, New Hampshire Senator Jeanne Shaheen. She joins us from Amman, Jordan.

Good morning, Senator.

I know we have got a bit of a delay here, so I will launch right in.

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-New Hampshire): Good morning, or afternoon here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, exactly.

You do sit on the Armed Services Committee as well. Here in Washington, there was a sudden round of firings we learned of on Friday. There was Lieutenant General Jeffrey Kruse, the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. He was dismissed. The Pentagon did not explain why.

In addition, the Navy reserve chief, Vice Admiral Nancy Lacore, was fired. The Navy SEAL who oversees Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Admiral Milton Sands, was dismissed.

Has Congress been informed as to why these leaders are being fired by Secretary Hegseth?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I'm not aware that Congress has been informed about any of these firings.

And they come on the heels of firings earlier this year of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the head of naval operations, Admiral Franchetti, and a series of other military leaders. And it's unfortunate, because one of the things – one of the strengths of America's military are the professional military leaders who have come up through the ranks who have the training, the expertise to be able to do the jobs.

And what we don't want is political people in those jobs who are not going to give honest assessments of the military situation wherever we happen to be. So, it's very troubling.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I believe our feed there just froze. And we're going to try to get that back up if we can. The senator is joining us from Amman, Jordan.

So I'm going to take a break while we reestablish that connection.

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: The feed just froze.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're back now with Senator Jeanne Shaheen, who joins us remote from Amman, Jordan.

We lost you there, but we're so glad you're back with us now, Senator.

Let me ask you about why you are in the Middle East right now. We heard on Friday this internationally recognized body backed by the U.N., the IPC – it tracks hunger. And they confirmed, technically confirmed, there is a manmade famine under way in Gaza. This is a very rare designation. Only four other times has one been designated.

The country you are in, Jordan, called it a shameful failure of humanity, that Israel is starving Palestinians with impunity, called it a war crime. Would you say that that three-month blockade by Israel of Gaza is a war crime?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I think it is a shameful black mark on humanity that the world has allowed this to happen and that Israel is allowing this to happen.

One of the – we had a very good meeting today with King Abdullah of Jordan, and one of the places that we visited is the Jordan humanitarian assistance program that is trying to get aid into Gaza. This is a – funded trucks and warehouses and food that the United States has contributed to as part of this administration.

They are trying to get in 150 trucks a day into Israel. And Israel has prevented those trucks from going in, in a way that would provide the nutrition that Gazans need to prevent starvation. It is unacceptable.

Prime Minister Netanyahu is the point at which obstruction is happening. He needs to look at what he is doing and change his position.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The Israeli prime minister's office on Friday had a very harsh statement about the famine designation. They called it – quote – "a modern blood libel spreading like wildfire through prejudice."

That suggests this is about anti-Jewish hate, rather than starvation. How do you make sense of the Israeli defense?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I don't think that's a good defense. The fact is, this is not about antisemitism, which I abhor. And the United States' position is against antisemitism, and we need to do everything we can to prevent it.

But the reality is, we have people dying because they are systematically being starved to death because Israel is refusing to allow in the humanitarian aid that people need to keep alive. Not only that. They are getting ready to do another – or they have already started planning another major incursion into Gaza in ways that are going to kill more people.

So this is not acceptable. The world needs to speak out. I think it's very important that we allow that humanitarian aid in to the people who are starving.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand your criticism right now.

I want to ask you a little bit, though, about standing U.S. policy, because this has been a problem even during the Biden administration. In fact, former Deputy National Security Adviser for President Biden Joe – Jon Finer just wrote a piece in "The Atlantic."

And he said that, while he stands by the decision to embrace Israel after October 7, he believes: "We did far too little far too late to limit the truly catastrophic civilian harm that Israel's response inflicted."

Do you agree with him? And do you wish that you spoke out more forcefully sooner?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I don't think this is a partisan position.

With me on this journey to Jordan is Congressman Joe Wilson from South Carolina. He agreed with me that we need to make sure those humanitarian aid trucks get into Israel. We need to do everything possible to ensure that Prime Minister Netanyahu is stopping the roadblocks that are preventing the humanitarian aid from getting in.

I think – it's something that I hope that both Democrats and Republicans can embrace.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

But do you agree with this self-criticism by this key Democrat? Do you think Democrats should have said more sooner?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: We should be doing more, and we should have done more, absolutely.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

I want to also ask you…

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I think everybody should…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Go ahead.

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: … have said more sooner, not just Democrats, but Republicans.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Why are you now?

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: We had the opportunity to be here today to meet with those Jordanians who are working very hard to try and get humanitarian aid into Gaza, who are being stymied in that effort by bureaucratic obstacles that make no sense, when it takes hours to scan a truck, which could be done in two to three, and it diverts the aid, when it's costing hundreds of dollars per truck.

And they turn those trucks away, and when they come back the next day, it costs another hundreds of dollars more for the same truck when they find an excuse for why it gets stopped at the border. That's not a legitimate effort to get humanitarian aid into the people of Gaza, who are starving.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: And that can be changed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: All it takes is Prime Minister Netanyahu saying, we're going to allow that aid in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Jeanne Shaheen joining us from Amman, Jordan.

A bit of a delay there.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Congressman Mike Lawler is standing by.

So, stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.

We go now to Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York.

Good to have you here, Congressman.

There's a lot to get to with you, but I want to pick up on something we were discussing with the governor of Maryland. And that was this redistricting, gerrymandering that is happening. The president encouraged Texas Republicans to do it. Now California Democrats are trying to get districts redrawn as well.

Why do you so strongly oppose this?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I think gerrymandering is fundamentally wrong and it is at the heart of why Congress has been broken for so many years. If you look three decades ago, there were over 100 competitive districts. Last November, only 35 seats were decided by five points or less. And mine wasn't even one of them. Despite the fact that Kamala Harris won my seat. I won by six and a half points.

So, when you look at the map across the country, the fact is, roughly 400 members are not in competitive districts, they're focused primarily on primaries and not general elections, and, therefore, they're not focused on appealing to a much broader swath of the electorate. And I think that, obviously, reflects itself when you're actually trying to negotiate legislation and beyond.

But when you look at the redistricting situation, obviously both parties do not have clean hands here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Democrats in New York did mid-decade redistricting last year. In 2024, at the behest of Hakeem Jeffries, who wanted to pick up seats in New York to become speaker –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: They gerrymandered the maps after stacking the court and getting a favorable ruling ordering a mid-decade redistricting. Despite the fact that they gerrymandered maps in 2022 and those were thrown out because it violated the state constitution.

So, now, New York is going for a third bite at the apple, according to Governor Hochul, who has made it clear since the moment she took office in 2021 that she would use redistricting to help Democrats win the House.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: So, this is what you're dealing with, red states and blue states, trying to get electoral advantage right now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I guess what's different now is the president's direct involvement in this, which is why it's interesting you have legislation to try to oppose some of this. Do you really think you can get that done if the president of the United States doesn't want it done?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Look, obviously it's going to be a fight. But this is something that I fundamentally believe we need to reform. We need to ban gerrymandering nationwide. We need to ban mid-decade redistricting. I want to include term limits as part of those reforms because I fundamentally believe when you have members of Congress, like Chuck Schumer, who's been in elected office since 1974, never held a job outside of elected office, it's time to go. You need term limits. You need overall reform.

So, I'm going to fight tooth and nail to get this done. Obviously, you know, there's going to be strong headwinds from both parties because, frankly, I don't think both parties are interested in reforming the way Congress functions.

MARGARET BRENNAN: No, they want the majority, period.

On the question, though, that we have been – also been discussing with the governor, that is crime. The president of the United States has mentioned New York as another city he wants to look at to deploy National Guard troops. Do you think that's the best use of federal taxpayer dollars and are you comfortable with that happening in your state?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Well, crime has been a major problem in New York for years. And Kathy Hochul and Albany and New York City Democrats have failed miserably to tackle this crime crisis.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, but do you want National Guard troops?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: By the way, Kathy Hochul has mobilized – Kathy Hochul has mobilized National Guard troops to go into the subway system because of the crime in the subway system. So, that has been done, obviously, for the purpose of surging resources and trying to prevent crime.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: When you look at the fact that in New York City, for instance, 80 percent of gun crimes do not result in a conviction or prosecution. That 80 percent of these individuals are released back out on to the street despite using guns in the commission of a crime. You look at Washington, D.C., 1.7 percent of gun crime convictions result in jail time.

So, when Democrats talk about gun violence, how come they don't want to actually prosecute and enforce the law against criminals who are using guns in the commission of a crime? This is a fundamental problem and it's why the homicide rate –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well – no, but that's a local – that's a local issue that would need to get changed.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: No, but this –

MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of the question on the troops, you'd rather troops than –

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: But – but – but, Margaret, this is why the homicide rate is so high.

MARGARET BRENNAN: FBI agents or ATF agents or DEAL agents? You don't want federal agents who are trained law enforcement officers in New York City, you would rather National Guardsmen who have to be trained to police?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: I want – I want all of the above. No. No, no, don't – don't put words in my mouth. I'd rather all of the above. The FBI, the DEA, ATF. I've met with ATF just a few weeks ago in my office on this very issue of really cracking down on gun crimes and prosecuting criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime.

I was proud last year to lead the passage of the Undetectable Firearms Act, a common sense, bipartisan piece of gun safety legislation, enacted into law in the 1980s. We extended it seven years to make sure that no gun is manufactured or sold with less than 3.7 ounces of metal.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: I led that effort. And the reason I did is because we do not want guns on the street being used in the commission of a crime.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And yet, as I pointed out, you look at Washington, D.C., only 1.7 percent of gun crime convictions result in jail time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: This is why you've seen the homicide rate double in less than a decade. It's outrageous. And it's exactly why the president is cracking down on crime in major cities.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And as we saw in California, he is legally authorized to do so.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about something in New York state that – that matters. A good amount of money from that chips bill went to New York.

On Friday, the White House announced there's going to be a change to how the government deals with that money that's meant to make America independent of Asian computer chip manufacturing and bring it all back on shore. The president wants to buy a 10 percent stake in Intel. That company says it's going to now basically have U.S. taxpayers as a – as a shareholder, own 10 percent.

As a conservative, do you think that the government should have ownership stakes in private companies?

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Generally speaking, no. I think when you look at prior history, when we've had, for instance, the bank bailouts –

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: When we've had the auto bailouts, you know, in the –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: In the aftermath of the collapse of the market in '08, the American taxpayer really didn't get a return on that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: I think what the president is seemingly trying to do is get a return on these tens of billions of dollars –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: That are being invested by U.S. taxpayers, by U.S. taxpayers into companies like Intel –

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: To manufacture chips.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: And so rather than just give the money away, get a return on that investment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We're going to –

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Obviously, this is a national security issue. We want to be in control of the manufacturing of semiconductors.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman –

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: That is critical for our foreign policy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, I'm sorry to cut you off. I'm being told I have to go to a commercial break.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE LAWLER: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I'm going to leave it there.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the U.S. economy. Mohamed El-Erian is the chief economic adviser at Allianz, and he joins us this morning from Greenwich, Connecticut.

Good morning to you.

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN (President, Queens College, Cambridge University and Chief Economic Adviser, Allianz): Good morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, we saw the – the Federal Reserve chair signal on Friday that the Fed is going to, as expected, begin lowering rates very soon. But he's also cited slowing economic growth and a cooling job market. So, why then did the financial markets rally?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: Because he finally pivoted to the risk that matters most for the U.S. economy right now. By construct, the Fed has to deliver two things, maximum employment and price stability. And the Fed is looking at slightly higher inflation and a weakening labor market. And what Powell finally did, and many of us feel he should have done this earlier, is he said the risk to the employment side is higher than the risk to the inflation side and, therefore, an interest rate cut is warranted. As you know, many of us felt he should have cut last month.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Fed chair said, "significantly higher tariffs are remaking the entire global trade system." "Tighter immigration policy has slowed labor growth." And there are big tax and regulation changes you can't quite, you know, quantify at this point. But it's a lot of uncertainty.

Since economists have to build off of models and data, how do you predict where we're going if basically he's saying, throw out your models?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: So, one of the problems is he hasn't looked forward enough. He's been very data dependent. And, therefore, he has tended to be late.

Look, there is something promising in our future. And that is productivity enhancement that comes from exciting innovation in A.I., in life sciences, in robotics and other areas. We just have to manage a challenging few months in the period ahead. And if that challenge is mishandled, we will not be able to get the opportunities that we have that offset a lot of structural headwinds. And that includes high debt and high deficits.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about something we were discussing with Congressman Lawler just before you. And that is this unusual decision for the U.S. government to take a stake in chipmaker Intel. That company has been struggling of late and its CEO was criticized by the president of the United States. He was criticized by the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Tom Cotton. President Trump mentioned all of that on Friday, and he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (President Of The United States): He walked in wanting to keep his job and he ended up giving up $10 billion for the United States. So, we picked up $10 billion. And we do a lot of deals like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN: The president said the CEO wanted to keep his job, so he offered a 10 percent stake in his company. Is this signaling a new era for U.S. policy? I mean, central planning of the economy?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: I don't think so. Margaret, look, as the congressman said, it's good to send the message that companies will not get something for nothing. And that is what they've gotten used to since 2008, all the bailouts. And what the U.S. is saying now is we –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Which were paid back.

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: Which were paid back. But at the time, the government took enormous risk in many, many areas.

The most important distinction, if I may here, is between ownership and control. Yes, the government can own 10 percent, but it must not control how this company manages its affairs. Because once we go down that road, that is a really dangerous road, and that will (ph) eat way at what makes America really special, which is a dynamic entrepreneurial economy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I believe the commerce secretary said there won't be control, but that is something to watch for.

I want to also ask you about political pressure, not just on the Federal Reserve chair, which you've nodded to, but the president is also now threatening to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. They're accusing her, without publicly disclosed evidence, of mortgage fraud, and urging an investigation. In fact, the Justice Department wrote a letter to Chair Powell encouraging her to be removed.

Are you concerned that this is starting to be a pattern here of political interference with the Federal Reserve?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: So, these allegations are unproven. And it's important to stress that.

Having just said that, this is the fifth time in the last five years that there has been allegations against a Fed official. And already four of them have had to resign. So, what I'm concerned about is that there seems to have been a culture that has developed at the Fed that have resulted in these four resignations.

But I am very worried about preserving Fed independence. An independence central bank is critical to the well-being of the economy. And there's lots of reasons for that. So, you know, one has to distinguish between the two, I can't speak to the unproven allegations, but I do think it's really important to defend the central bank independence.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, as I understand it, the governor has said she wants to, you know, share information and is – is denying wrongdoing here.

But just the fact that it is the president directing the attention towards her, doesn't this suggest that even if Jerome Powell steps aside as head of the Federal Reserve, that this isn't going to stop, this big spotlight on the central bank that is so powerful and that the fear you have of political interference may not go away?

MOHAMED EL-ERIAN: Yes, and I – my fear, and my concern, is that the longer Chair Powell is in his position, and it runs out in May, the longer he's in his position until then, the more this acts as a magnet for attacking, not only deeper attacks from the president, but much broader from the political system. And that's one thing that quite a few people are worried about.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mohamed El-Erian, thank you so much for sharing your insight today. We'll leave it there.

We'll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We return now to Gaza and that stunning declaration Friday by a monitoring group that Gaza City is experiencing manmade famine and that those conditions will expand soon.

UNICEF Executive Director Catherine Russell joins us now. We want to warn our viewers, there will be some upsetting images in this segment.

Executive Director Russell, thank you for joining us.

We've spoken so many times over the past few years about the catastrophic starvation. Now you have this technical designation, so rare to see a famine here. They project it's going to spread. Can you explain, in real world terms, what does this mean for the children who live there?

CATHERINE RUSSELL (Executive Director, UNICEF): Well, thank you, Margaret.

Let – let me say this. You know, it's – it's been now almost two years since October 7th. And since then, Israeli children have been killed and taken hostage and now we're seeing Palestinian children finally facing what we've been yelling and screaming about for – for months and months and months, which is the terrible famine.

You know, we've estimated, at this point, that about 18,000 children in Gaza have already died. And those are children who have died from a whole range of issues. But when you think about that, that's about 28 children a day. That's almost a classroom of children every single day who have died since the beginning of this conflict. We have been saying, beware, right? This – this famine is just right around the corner and it's – it's almost like you're screaming into an abyss, you know, it's so – it's shocking that it's happened because, as you said, it happens so rarely, but it's not surprising.

And what it means really is that children have been spending months and months without sufficient food. And we see just a horrible situation where children are on the verge of starvation and ultimately dying from starvation. And I think, you know, for your viewers who haven't seen this, and hopefully many of them have not, it is a haunting image, children literally waste away. And you see it in rooms where, you know, suddenly they're – they're – they're all quiet. Children are so quiet because they have no energy even to cry. And to see that happen and – especially in a place where food is not very far away, right? There's no reason for this. This did not happen because there were cyclones or, you know, droughts. This happened because we could not get enough aid into these children.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And as you know, the Israeli government entity that oversees the Palestinian territories, it's called COGAT, says there is no famine. They say the U.N. data is flawed. The prime minister's office says these are fabrications and due to prejudice.

Can you explain how you know what you know? We are showing images that we know journalists have shot. Journalists who live inside Gaza. Because journalists are not allowed into Gaza to report. How do you know what you're saying is fact?

CATHERINE RUSSELL: Well, let me say two things about that. One is, the IPC, which is the organization that makes this determination, is an independent organization. They're technical people. They're not political people. And they monitor this as they go and they look at issues like, what are the levels of food deprivation, what's the acute malnutrition level, how many starvation-laden deaths. So, it's a very technical assessment. And I think we've seen in other places that this is very accurate.

I would also say, to me, it's – it's kind of obscene that we are having these conversations arguing about whether the methodology works or not. We know children are dying, all right. I – I – I am tired of a discussion about, well, are we giving the right information or not?

First of all, let the international press in. Let them make determinations. I mean we've talked about this, Margaret, of you coming. You should see it yourself. Everyone should be able to get in there. Absence of that, we're going to have to rely on the – the data that we have, the people who were there. And I can tell you from the UNICEF perspective, our people are tortured by this. I mean I have spoken to our staff and they are seeing children who are incredibly deprived. Many thousands of children who have had amputations and are – you know, I mean just one terrible thing after another for children. And to suggest that there's anything funny going on here is really, in my mind, just almost making the situation worse, right? Just stop the discussions, stop the arguing and address the problem. Get food in there. Take care of these children. Make sure that they have the wherewithal to survive and have a decent future.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And – and the Israeli government controls who gets in and who gets out.

On the question, though, of making sure that the food you do get in gets to the right people, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Jack Lieu, and another Mideast envoy, have said the U.N. agencies may not like it, but if the Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is the only thing really allowed to operate, then maybe there needs to be some compromise. Why – why not? The United States government is putting $30 million to work there. Why not work with them?

CATHERINE RUSSELL: You know, look, I – the – the methodology of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is not something that is consistent with the way humanitarians work. That's a simple answer. And honestly, you know, if you think about it, U.N. had 400 places where we – we would distribute aid. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation had four, OK. And you have seen on television, you have seen this video of these almost apocalyptic situations where people are streaming towards these places, trying to get food. People are getting shot. It's a – it's a terrible situation. And it doesn't work. It's not working that well.

Now, look, I don't – I don't much care if the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation does some distribution. Just let us our – let us do our work too. Let us in. We know how to do this distribution. And when I say "we," it's not just UNICEF, it's the U.N., it's the other international NGOs. We do it all around the world. We've done it for decades. We know how to do it. We know how to do it in a way that gets to the people who need it. And I – you know, do both. I'm fine with that. But at least make sure the humanitarians can get in there and distribute the aid fairly and make sure that these children are not dying unnecessarily. Nobody wants that. President Trump has said that. Nobody wants to see that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. He did indeed.

I want to ask you as well about Sudan, where there was a massive humanitarian crisis. If the United States is not leading efforts to get aid in there, is anyone else stepping up?

CATHERINE RUSSELL: You know, look, the United States has the ability to be such a force for good. And we need them to step up and do more.

Sudan, as you say, it's the largest displacement crisis in the world. Millions of children are on the move. They are not in school. We now have a horrible outbreak of cholera, which is very destructive and kills children within hours if they can't get aid. I mean it is absolutely horrific. And the United States can be such a force for making positive contributions. And I think, you know, other countries are trying, but the U.S. really can make a much bigger difference if they try to – to do this work and do it as quickly as possible.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And in Sudan, what is the generational impact here when you don't get –

CATHERINE RUSSELL: It's horrible.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

CATHERINE RUSSELL: You know, look, first of all, they're not getting food. They are facing horrible sexual violence.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

CATHERINE RUSSELL: I was just in Chad and heard stories that could just break your heart.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

CATHERINE RUSSELL: And it's – it's devastating.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

CATHERINE RUSSELL: And the results, as you say, will last for generations.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you for sharing that.

That's it for us today. Thank you for watching. I'm Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)